Peanut Butter Freak



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Good old Sheila made herself known to me by posting about her daughter’s allergy to peanut butter. I wouldn’t have had such a problem with her posting this stuff except for the tiny little detail of her calling me names and accusing me of being a bad mom…. Read on for the details:

Someone who had received a letter from her child’s school regarding peanut allergies started this thread. She wanted to know if anyone else had gotten things like this. Here is the thread, it’s LONG:

blessedby4 Wrote:
PB&J banned at school.
Well not exactly banned but... my daughter brought home a notice yesterday. One of the kids in her class has a severe allergy to all nuts and foods made with nuts or nut oil. They are asking that parents not send lunches or snacks to school with peanut butter or other nuts. My other child told me that they have been making that announcement over the PA system everyday.

this is a volunteer only policy. I was just wondering if this is happening in other schools as well? blessedby4
*Please note I’ll add my extra comments like this. These will be my comments I have added for this site only, not the replies I gave in the public forum. I wasnt allowed to voice my TRUE feelings there.~Optycal

Sheila wrote: OK ladies, I am going to try really hard not to come across offensive to anyone.... my DD is severely allergic to peanuts and peanut products. On a scale from 0-6, she is a 5. This means having a doctor say to you, in 5-10 minutes of exposure, your child could DIE. Think about this for a moment, envision it is YOU in that doctor office... NOW would it seem overboard to not want your child sitting next to peanut butter?! To better help you understand, here are some facts about the allergy you probably are not aware of, as we were not until it pertained to our family.
An allergy to peanuts is one of the most dangerous food allergies. In fact, this allergy is the most common cause of death from food allergies. Just a small amount of peanut protein can cause anaphylactic shock and even death.
The most common instance of direct contact is when someone eats a peanut product and then touches a chair or table, leaving a smear or even a trace of peanut. The next person to use that table or chair could be severely peanut allergic, and that residue, if ingested, could be enough to cause a reaction. That is why it is so important in a classroom environment to eliminate foods containing peanut to avoid possible exposure. This is why I agree 100% with schools choosing to ban peanut products! My DD had an exposure in her mother's day out program - the child ate pbj sandwhich, touched DD's sippy cup, my child reacted and had to be rushed to the hospital. The teachers there knew of her allergy. allowed the child to eat the pbj anyhow, and this occurred.
 ask yourself, what is more important? Your child "having the right" to eat pbj, or the possibility of an allergic child DYING?
Can your conscious handle any of the above reactions for a peanut sensitive child? I do not mean to be cruel or rude, just want you to understand my DD's life depends upon your education and concern, because frankly, when she is at school her life is in the hands of other parent's and teachers. I would like to think I can send her to school and know that she will return to me alive. Thanks for reading this long post, I hope it has offered you some insight.

Sheila and Darrell, Ashlynn's Dad
Sheila, mom to Ashlynn 3, Madison 1
*So Sheila steps onto the stage. No problem. She made her point, added some links to support her side. In fact she was posting HER reply at the same time I was posting mine. I happen to have been posted right under hers and so the fire starts.I have removed the links she added for ease of reading.~Opty
Optycal wrote:
My reply is going to tick a LOT of people off, but as you all have gotten to know me fairly well... you realize I don’t often keep my mouth shut on subjects.

As cold and horrible as it sounds, I'd still send peanut butter sandwiches to school for my kids. Frankly it's the ONLY thing they'll eat for sure. So why should MY child starve at lunchtime or be deprived of their favorite food because someone in the school is / may be allergic to the food. I have said it before and I'll say it again... a child of school age is very much able to tell the other kids "I'm sorry but I cant eat that" or "I'm sorry I must sit elsewhere because I'm allergic, we can play again after we're done eating and we wash our hands!"

My child has a sensitivity to several foods AND is allergic to quite a few kinds of perfume.... would I ask that every child in school NOT bring cheese, or have the cafeteria (SP) stop serving MILK, or that the teachers not wear all those perfumes she is allergic too? HELL NO.... it's not the job of the public to watch out for the health and safety of anyone else's child. It is the responsibility of the parents to do so.

It's UNCONSTITUTIONAL to demand that folks not bring certain foods.... we have the right to certain freedoms.... sure those sick kids have the right to be in a safe environment for them and as soon as more than half the American population is allergic to Peanut Butter, we can reinstate that rule... but for now as the peanut butter allergy is a minority among the kids (all-be-it a rising number, very scary) I say find another way to keep the kids safe.

My little peanut butter monsters LOVE the taste, the feel, the smell and I WILL NOT deprive my children of the satisfying meal that helps them feel comfortable and well fed.

I can certainly relate to the plea of those whose children suffer from this horrible allergy and I can sympathize with what they must be feeling. As parents we want the best and safest environment for our kids, and I don’t blame you. But do NOT think for a single minute I will keep my mouth shut and let the schools take away my kids' favorite foods... I don’t like being told what to do, I don’t like being told I CANT do something because it could hurt someone's feelings, or it could make them sick.... as long as I'm not smoking in school (I don’t smoke mind you!) or passing out drugs or handing a beer to each child in the mess hall, you cannot stop me from letting my kids eat peanut butter.

No I don’t have an answer to the problem, I have ideas BUT nobody would like them =) There is a better answer than to take away a childhood STAPLE just because one or two kids can't have it. You'll NEVER get me to think otherwise. It's like saying "We will not be serving Chicken Noodle soup for lunch because it makes Mrs. Jones sick and vomit." My reply is simply, "Make Mrs. Jones leave the room then on Chicken Soup day and the rest of us will eat it in peace." Sounds harsh, but life IS harsh.

I'm sorry if I offend anyone but it's how I feel. I wont apologize for my opinion, but I can only say I hope you can all read this with an open mind. I have a tendency to debate quite passionately.... don’t take that as anger please =)
As an afterthought as well..... Does that mean my kids can't eat a peanut butter toast before school? Cuz as we all know, kids don’t always wash their hands and faces very well...... You want to ban peanut butter at home too?

Again, not trying to make anyone mad or offend... But it's how I feel *shrug *
*This was my initial post and the added piece at the end was an EDIT after I saw what Sheila had written. I asked a point blank question and I still haven’t gotten a straight answer. Instead of Sheila having a conversation with me, she automatically starts attacking with insults. Read on!~Opty

*I’ll be interjecting with my replies to this because I just can’t help myself. See, I had to be really careful what I posted on the original site because it wasn’t mine, THIS IS my site so I can say whatever I want now~Opty
Sheila Wrote:
Optycal, you speak of CONSTITUTIONAL rights, I ask you, where is my child's constitutional right not to be segregated, made to leave the room due to an allergy she has no control over? As you stated re: the Mrs Jones scenario, the rest will eat it "in peace" It disturbs your peace for me to protect the LIFE of my child? *Yes when you expect the rest of the world to bow down and watch your child FOR you. When you expect the rest of the community to live by the same restriction your DNA placed on YOUR child~Opty I am sorry, but a child's life is worth SO MUCH MORE than a pbj sandwhich! No one sd deprive them always, just at a time that a child may DIE! You say children can let others know they are allergic - I have educated my DD very well, BUT she is THREE! *And as I pointed out before this is the forum for SCHOOL AGED KIDS> Take your preaching elsewhere~Opty She did not know to let that child in her MDO know not to touch her sippy cup! *Maybe since your child was so horribly allergic to the product you shouldn’t have let her go to the Mother’s Day Out without you. Perhaps you were too selfish of your precious time off to watch your own child.~ We are placing their lives in the care of the school care givers, they DO have a responsibilty while our child is in their care! * I never said it’s not the schools job to watch out for their safety. That safety can only go so far. Making all the other kids in school stop eating peanutbutter or nut products at school and BEFORE school is just plain stupid and selfish on YOUR part. It’s YOUR job as a parent to watch your child, not the school’s. If you don’t think the school is going to watch your kid close enough or give enough safety, home  school her.~ To say otherwise is ludicrous!!

I cannot believe your attitude, frankly. You have not indicated your child could DIE from her allergies, that is a huge distinction. we are not talking about sneezing, a rash, or something some benadryl could fix; no, this is a child stopping breathing, coma, death. * I did reply to this later on and then removed the specific information, just know that my own child has life threatening allergies. Dear little Sheila didn’t bother asking before she ASSUMED my kids were healthy.~ But to you, oh we cannot infringe on your rights to do what you want! I guess you want to hear that millions of children could die from your child's possible exposure before it would put a dent in your armor of, do not tell me what to do?! is one child's life not worth making some safe rules? I understand that this issue goes both ways, and you do not want your child having to be segregated.. but come on, is one type of food SO important to your child? Please... you obviously show some education *You make me blush, do go on… I’d sure LOVE to show you how much education I have… it’d make your air-filled head spin~ relating to the rise of cases of the allergy, is it going to take an actual death for it to matter to those of you with peanut butter lovers? We are not talking about someone getting sick and throwing up from chicken soup, or not liking perfume.. we are talking DEATH. If that does not make an impact on you, you are right, no one will ever change your mind. I just hope we never have to put that theory to the test.
Ok Optycal, if it were your child, what would you want done about it? Are you just going to rely on your child knowing what not to eat? What about all the other items of food that contain peanut? Are they responsible for reading the ingredients at age three? Should I as the parent send them off to preschool confident they will always remember to state their allergy, when they cannot remember what happened a few hours ago?

You really scare me. There are so many issues to make your constitutional rights known. But a food. I have to fight for my childs life everyday! I thank the ones that help protect my child and the lives of others. But I pitty the ignorant and selfish ones and truly pray to God that you and yours are not faced with this type of battle.... But if you are, I will stand beside you because I not only care for my child, I CARE FOR YOURS TOO!

Darrell
Ashlynn's dad *At this point I started to copy/paste their posts and my replies to make it easier to follow.~

Optycal wrote:
Nope, I'm sorry that WONT make an impact on me. I have seen the effects of it first hand. I know what it can do, and as I stated I can certainly feel for those involved. But I stand by my statement 100%. It's the responsibility of the parents to send their kids to a safe environment and feel confident and comfortable doing so. I won’t be told that my kids can’t eat the only thing they WILL eat at school. I stand strong in my opinion on this. There are other ways around it, people can be very adaptable, and change to their environment. Come up with some other ideas. Although it isn’t my concern at the moment, heres a few to get the creative juices flowing! *This is where I answered their request for some ideas~

~A lunch check to see if peanut butter is present in a lunch of one of her classmates.... if so, she can be directed to sit next to a different friend that day.
~A seperate table for kids with peanut butter allergies. Although I dont like this one very much, at least there would be no SMUDGES on the table and chairs, and no accidental pokings with a peanutty finger.
~A school lunch aid specifically designated to watch over the kids with severe food allergies and make sure they dont come in contact with the item in question.

These are just a few... and the list could go on and on if we just open our minds to the possibilities =)


I stated that ~~QUOTE "a child of school age is very much able to tell the other kids "I'm sorry but I cant eat that" or "I'm sorry I must sit elsewhere because I'm allergic, we can play again after we're done eating and we wash our hands!" END QUOTE~~

I never said anything about three year olds, as you accused. It's YOUR job as a parent to protect her at such a young age, which you DID by informing her daycare.... now it's on THEIR hands for letting the unthinkable happen. Don’t expect me to make my kids go without a good healthy lunch because your daughter cannot be around it.

I go back to my second post as well.... does that mean my kids cant eat a peanut butter toast before school because they might touch your daughter during the day? *They didn’t answer it the first time I asked, so I’ll ask again…~ The line must be drawn somewhere and I think if we BAN a childhood staple from the schools we are setting ourselves up for a TERRIBLE future.

One day I may have a child who is allergic to peanut butter... Know what? I'm not going to ask the whole school to stop eating it, stop bringing it, and watch out for my child's peanut butter consumption... it's MY job to police that and I'd like to think any child of mine is going to be bright enough to say NO to it at school age. I'll educate my child and inform the right people at the school and then I'll just have to trust I've done my best. if it's going to be THAT bad I wont send her to daycare and I'll home school until she is older to avoid the possibility of a SMUDGE killing my kid. There are ways around it, but taking that food away from an entire school is not one of them in my opinion. It is something I'd fight tooth and nail over.

You say ~~QUOTE "No one sd deprive them always, just at a time that a child may DIE!" and "The most common instance of direct contact is when someone eats a peanut product and then touches a chair or table, leaving a smear or even a trace of peanut. The next person to use that table or chair could be severely peanut allergic, and that residue, if ingested, could be enough to cause a reaction. " END QUOTE~~

And I say what about that smudge you spoke of earlier? You know, the one on the chair? The one on the table? It could just as easily make it to the table or chair or the doorknob to the classroom from the peanut butter toast my kids had for breakfast! To make the world safe for the allergic kids, millions of other kids would have to stop eating the peanut butter.

~~QUOTE "You have not indicated your child could DIE from her allergies, that is a huge distinction. we are not talking about sneezing, a rash, or something some benadryl could fix; no, this is a child stopping breathing, coma, death" END QUOTE~~   *here is where I make her eat her words… hope she rots in hell for it.

I didnt mention my child's possibility of death from certain foods because frankly it isnt any of your business and I didnt think she needed her entire medical history on the internet just to prove my point. She is entitled to some privacy... ~~EDIT{{Paragraph removed for my child's privacy.... the intended reader saw it and acknowledged it.... thanks for your understanding ladies!}}END EDIT~~ Do you think a teaspoon of benadryl will fix MY little baby?

Back to the peanut butter.... *Notice I try and get it back on track, at this point though I am highly annoyed with the fact they wont open their eyes and consider other possibilities and the fact they keep throwing insults at me instead of having a discussion. Silly me, I thought it WAS a discussion board~ if my child wants peanut butter and it's one of the things she can safely eat... I'm not going to say NO to her because your child might touch her smudge.

Again I feel for the parents and I can certainly understand their point, but my opinion differs, it doesn’t make me right and it doesn’t make me wrong.

I debated with myself, should I bother posting the tidbits of my child's health or not? I wasnt sure until after I wrote it and reread it. I think it's incredibly important for those of you APPALLED by my reaction to know I am in the SAME boat with my child.... but I'm not going to force the rest of the world to stop consuming those foods. I simply brought up the seriousness of her condition to show I am not heartless, just realistic.

~~if it were your child, what would you want done about it?~~

Already answered, I gave several options and the ideas are limitless if you open your mind to them. And it IS my child.

~~What about all the other items of food that contain peanut? Are they responsible for reading the ingredients at age three? ~~

Don’t be silly *what I WANTED to write was “Don’t be a dumbass”~, a three year old doesn’t read the labels just as a Three year old doesn’t PICK HER OWN FOOD. Any mom knows that the PARENTS choose the food. It's YOUR JOB. Besides the issue is NOT a three year old, this is the ELEMENTARY YEARS forum.... we're talking about school age kids, not daycare, as I stated before, my comments only apply to school agers.... preschool is a whole other ball of wax. *You’d think they’d get the point by now, but stupid is as stupid does.~

~~Should I as the parent send them off to preschool confident they will always remember to state their allergy, when they cannot remember what happened a few hours ago?~~

Again I spoke only of school age kids, as I said in my original post. BUT to answer your question, of course not. Thats why it's (yet again) YOUR JOB to inform the school and remind them as needed *Which she obviously DIDN’T remind them because her child WAS exposed to peanuts which means SHE DIDN’T do her job. Sounds like someone feels guilty~ . If you don’t, then it's your fault, not your child's.  
~~You really scare me.~~

Good it'll make you open your eyes and start thinking. Now instead of being afraid why not send me a PM and we can debate the issue =)  *This was my attempt to take it off the public forums, since she can’t control her urges to point fingers and call names. I figure in PM’s at least she would  not feel like such an ass when I pointed out her stupidity~
~~I have to fight for my childs life everyday!~~

As do I, as do all the other parents on the planet. *They seem to think they are the only mom and dad who have to be worried about their kids everyday. Everything revolves around Sheila and her family I guess.~
 
~~truly pray to God that you and yours are not faced with this type of battle~~

Too late. * Besides the fact that praying to a God that doesn’t exist is just plain stupid. Instead of spending time praying for things, get off your ass and make them happen~
 
~~I will stand beside you because I not only care for my child, I CARE FOR YOURS TOO!~~

That's a nice sentiment, I appreciate the kind words. *And I really wanted to say “Kiss my ass you selfish fuck. You don’t care about anyone but yourself and your family." Also please dont stand beside me. The urge to smack some sense into you two would be too great and I dont think I can control my urges.~
 
Sheila wrote: Well Optycal, I am sorry to hear of your childs difficulties and I can guarantee that if she was in my daughters school I would abbide by the rules set by YOU the public "In a public school" because once again I state that I not only care about my child but the safety of yours as well.
Yes, there are many things that we can do to help secure our childrens safety, but not asking for the help of others is, I'm sorry.. BUT QUITE STUPID!!!! Especially when we are talking about a life!
I posted info re: DD health to benfit other parents that may go thru something similar. NOT to infringe on her privacy for heavens sakes! And NO I would never want to hear of the suffering of your child, or lust after it, as you so hatefully stated. I guess I had difficulty believing that if your child goes thru the same as mine that you could have this type stance on the matter. Because of the fact that benadryl is NOT enough, I would think you would enlist all the help you could get to protect her precious life. Especially after watching al lthat she has gone thru and the pain it has caused. *dont worry I replied to all this down there a bit... hang in there....~

When I was talking of my dd being 3, it was to make the point that even at pre schools we are faced with this issue, the child is not always of an age to know how to make others aware. As a matter of fact, we are considering home school, because there will always be people such as yourself, who just cannot seem to let go of the chip on their shoulder and care for the lives of the innocents. People like you strike fear into parents like us. I hope as your child grows older, she will understand your personal views, and will not question you why you did not take greater strides to protect her from those painful tests and hospitalizations. I would never lust after any child's pain, that lets me know that this discussion has nothing to do with the safety of children, but more your own personal issues on authority, or more to the point, your "problem" with authority. My child, thankfully, has not experienced all that yours has, and already we feel this strongly. So yes, I think of you as a very cold person that can make fun of a SMUDGE that could take the life of a child. of course, that makes no impact on you, RIGHT? seems to me that you are so wrapped in a shroud of bitterness, for lack of a better word, I am not sure WHAT WOULD impact you.
I would pm you Optycal, but it is obvious we will never come to an agreeance on this. Good luck with your child, I feel terrible for what has happened to your family and we will keep you all in our prayers. Sorry if our emotions got the best of us, but this is our child's lives we are talking about. I would like to think we can all work together to support one another, and most of all, protect our children. The ideas that you stated for the schools are good ones, I hope that you take them to the schoolboards in your area. Night night..........



Optycal wrote:
~~QUOTE: Yes, there are many things that we can do to help secure our childrens safety, but not asking for the help of others is, I'm sorry.. BUT QUITE STUPID!!!!~~

Indeed, good thing my childrens' school knows all about it and has made arrangements that dont effect anyone else, but ensure my kids' safety.
~~I guess I had difficulty believing that if your child goes thru the same as mine that you could have this type stance on the matter.~~*Open mouth insert foot Sheila~

Why? Because it's different from your view? Because I dont agree that the rest of the school should change to accomodate the needs one of or two children? Because I think it's the PARENTS' job to care for the kids and take the precautions? fair enough, you're entitled to your opinion.... dont judge a book by it's cover my friends, you'd be surprised. *I had a whole big thing typed out after this but deleted it before I posted because I wasn’t very nice! Lol~

~~Because of the fact that benadryl is NOT enough, I would think you would enlist all the help you could get to protect her precious life.~~ *Again I say Open mouth insert foot you stupid fuck what makes these morons think I’ve done nothing for the health of my kids? Who gave them the right to pass judgement and imply I don’t care for my kids and do all I can for them. OOOO I wanted to deck this bitch right about now. Stoooopid hag~

You foolishly assume I have done nothing to prepare my child, to inform her school and her friends you assume I have done none of the things a parent SHOULD do.... how silly. Just because I dont pour every detail of my family's life onto the board does not mean I dont care for them and does not mean I dont take precautiuons... it simply means I didnt mention it. It's not good to assume, you should always ask if you're unsure.

~~When I was talking of my dd being 3, it was to make the point that even at pre schools we are faced with this issue, the child is not always of an age to know how to make others aware.~~ *And exactly why it’s your job, dumbass.~

Absolutely! and it's important information to know! But please dont attack my post with points about your 3 year old, as I stated I was referring to SCHOOL age kids... not preschoolers.
 
~~As a matter of fact, we are considering home school~~ *But yet they still insist peanut butter be banned? And they still insist it's their child's right to go to public school, which is it Sheila, public school or homeschool? Funny how their story keeps changing.~

Its a great option for kids with special needs! I hope it works out for your DD!
 
~~ because there will always be people such as yourself, who just cannot seem to let go of the chip on their shoulder and care for the lives of the innocents.~~ *Bwahahahaha! I’m a fucking child care provider you dumbshits! Oh jesus these people are stupid. I don’t care for the lives of innocents? Assholes, I do it for a  living. This just proves how stupid they really are. It’s no secret on that board what I do for a living~

You make me giggle... really... because you have NO clue what I do for a living, you dont know my background. Do you know how many kids I have cared for in my adult life? Do you know what I do as a volunteer? Do you know what my education is? If I have a degree? Do you know ANYTHING at all about me and my family? All you know are the snippets I have offered up on the internet. I can't believe that anyone could be dense enough to think I have no other facets to my life. You know better, because you are not dense. The only chip on my shoulder is my impatients for folks who dont READ and LISTEN and LEARN before they open thier mouths... it's called ignorance. *and yes I was calling them ignorant~

~~why you did not take greater strides to protect her from those painful tests and hospitalizations.~~

Do you have a hidden camera following me around? How on earth do you know what strides I have taken to protect my child? Were you there in the waiting room as I cried and begged for them to help her, find why she couldnt breathe, why she couldnt eat? Were you there the long nights I rocked her to sleep trying to soothe her pain with a mother's love? And are you here now as I research all I can and find as much info as possible to help her? Those test and hospitalizations saved her life.... so no I wouldnt change a thing about it. If not for medical science, my daughter would have been buried 4 years ago. *and I say again, open mouth insert foot you stupid bitch. Have I mentioned she’s a stupid bitch yet?~

~~I think of you as a very cold person that can make fun of a SMUDGE that could take the life of a child.~~ *All this person can do is try and insult me and try to put words in my mouth and twist what I’ve said. She has no clue that I read and save every word she types….~

Never once did I make fun of the smudge. I pointed out the reality that banning peanut butter will not stop a SMUDGE from happening if kids eat it at home. Take it how you will, but never ONCE did I laugh at the smudge. You think I make light of it because I use capitols? Silly... truly silly. If I have made light of it (unintentionally) please feel free to quote it in a PM or even on the board. I'll apologize for it if I agree my comment seems to make light of the SMUDGE. *Never once did they copy/paste ANYTHING that indicated I made fun of it. I never got a PM from her saying where she read me making fun of it. Again I prove my point she’s a stupid bitch. She ran out of arguments so she starts making accusations and gets caught in her lies.~
 
~~I am not sure WHAT WOULD impact you~~

Peace on Earth, religious freedom for all without persecution, and an end to ignorance all over the world. *Bwahahaha… I kill me. I bet they were seething over there…. Do I REALLY have to be such a smartass? YES!~

Please in the future read my post a little more carefully. I try my hardest to read your posts several times to make sure I fully grasp the meaning, and then I respond. If I have misquoted you or misunderstood your meaning, feel free to let me know. *you think they ever responded to that? Hell no.~
Thats the beauty of a debate Sheila, we wont agree and dont HAVE to agree. I LOVE a good debate and you seem like you could really come up with some good arguments if you sat down and tried. *Meaning she hasn’t tried at all yet.~

I'm interested in your views on it because I'd like to understand where you're ideas are coming from. Instead of making accusations and slinging veiled insults *I’d like to point out that not once has a moderator stepped in to ask her to stop insulting me~ though, I'd rather the facts be used in the future. I understand your emotional outpour completely; in fact I deleted several paragraphs of my own posts because they were pure emotion, as opposed to facts and quotes. I even said an unkind thing in an email to someone describing how I felt at the accusations that I did not do anything for my child's condition.... and I felt better after venting. =)

I don’t need to take the ideas to the school board in my area because they don’t have any rules like that. They already have "Food patrol" going in the school to help the kids with allergies. It's a nice program and everyone seems to like it just fine.

Anyway, it has been a great debate so far and I appreciate your input on the subject! The links you provided were wonderful and will really give some good information to those seeking it.

I'm curious now if anyone else has a rule like this in their child's school (The original point of the thread I believe) and how you feel about it. =)  *Please note my attempt at getting this Stinky-Cooter-Hag off my back, and the thread back in the direction it was intended. Thanks DeeDee, for that name “Stinky-Cooter-hag" it’s beautiful!~
Peace to you and yours.... I hope you find strength in the caring people that respond to your life "as you have so gracefully poured onto the internet." *Ummm ok… what’s THAT supposed to mean? Assholes~No, I don't know all of the facts of your life as you do not know my life yet you accuse me of lusting for your childs pain. I now know more about you than I have ever posted regarding my family. After all, is this not what this is for??? You say that you care about us on this board yet you accuse us of letting you get to know us??? *And again what the fuck does that mean? Can you try and make more sense please?~ You are a bit confusing to me. Some of your post appear contradictory to me.  *Show me~

I understand if you LIKE to debate! Good for you... I take my childs allergy quite serious and IT IS NOT UP FOR DEBATE  *Yes it is. You just don’t have to join in.~ ... YOU EITHER HELP ME PROTECT THE CHILDREN THAT CAN DIE FROM THIS * It’s YOUR child not mine. YOU protect her.~ OR YOU CAN SIT AND SOLELY DEBATE.... I HAVE A MUCH GREATER FIGHT ON MY HANDS AND DO NOT HAVE PETTY TIME FOR DEBATES SUCH AS THIS. *Except for the fact you stayed up until 4 AM posting this shit. I’d have believed you if you hadn’t already been trying to insult me for the last 4 hours, but alas you have put your foot in your mouth again.~

Please don't take this the wrong way but find something less life threating to get your debate kicks off of. *Nothing better than pissing off morons! AH! How refreshing!~

As far as venting.... My husband will have to ask for some major forgiveness tonight in his prayers for the venting that he did *Oh for christ’s sake you religious freaks. How about asking me to forgive you for insulting my kids and me? How about asking forgiveness from all the people you’ve just made read your inane ramblings? How about asking your DAUGHTER for forgiveness for giving her a peanut butter allergy that can kill her? Ouch… did that hurt? Lol~

Optycal wrote:
Loads of wonderful ideas have come from the most heated debates. I see nothing wrong with debating on every subject! I have said many times before I enjoy the role of Devil's Advocate because it opens the eyes! It opens the mind! One would assume when facing something difficult in life, one would want to see all perspectives and all points of view before deciding on a course of action. *Except for Sheila, she likes to be close-minded and dumb~

I wasnt debating IF people should help in the case of a serious allergy, but HOW to give that help. To take away certain things from other people for the good of the few or to change a few rules or make a few simple adjustments etc, and how those actions affect those involved. It's discussion, and nothing more. I can't stop you from taking it personally, but the fact remains I disagree with the Banning of peanut butter. *Again I try to get it back on track~

I never did say I knew all the facts of your life, in fact I asked a few point blank questions on why you feel the way you do about the subject of peanut butter being banned. *And never got a  reply~ I'd love to hear your views, where they came from, if any other ideas had struck you as workable, if it had been discussed anywhere else.

You provided great links with some helpful information, helped me see some of your side more clearly, which is my intention to understand all sides of the debate.

~~You say that you care about us on this board yet you accuse us of letting you get to know us???~~

I'm not entirely certain what you were trying to say here, sorry but it's late, I may have missed your point. *OR you are just a moron and can’t articulate what you’re tying to say…. Dumbass~

~~You are a bit confusing to me. Some of your post appear contradictory to me. ~~

I tend to confuse a lot of people, my husband included lol.... I try and squeeze as much information into my posts as I possibly can without speaking in short choppy sentances. By all means if something is unclear to you PLEASE ask about it (Copy and paste would be great so I dont have to search back through the posts to find it) so I can clarify. *again they didn’t copy and paste ANYTHING… so I can only assume it was all very clear what I was trying to say and they just want to TRY to make me look bad.~
 

~~YOU EITHER HELP ME PROTECT THE CHILDREN THAT CAN DIE FROM THIS OR YOU CAN SIT AND SOLELY DEBATE~~

SO the fact I came up with several possible solutions means I am sitting by and "SOLELY DEBATING"? I thought they were pretty good starter suggestions, things for ideas to grow on. I don’t think that coming up with several ideas in a few short minutes is the same as simply debating. You asked me to come up with ideas and I obliged, but now you say I am simply debating rather than helping. I'm not sure what else you'd like me to do from across the country, but I'm open for suggestions. *can you taste the sarcasm?

~~Please don't take this the wrong way but find something less life threating to get your debate kicks off of. ~~

I don’t think I'm taking any of this the wrong way. I don’t see anything wrong with enjoying a good-spirited debate. If it's too close to home and too emotional for you, no one is forcing you to reply. *amen, me!~

No, I will not choose something less life threatening to debate over *because what’s the fun in that? You make it so damn easy to make fun of YOU, and the debate is just an added bonus.~.... I happen to think this is a great subject to talk about, for those who can handle the discussion. Hot button issues are the best in my opinion. From hot debates come astounding ideas!

It's fascinating to me that people can disagree so wildly over a subject. I am interested where people get their ideas from, how they form their opinions, how it effects everyday life if it does at all. As long as there are people willing to reply and to debate, I'll be at the front of the line! *That means as long as you keep opening your big mouth, I’ll keep shoving your feet in deeper~

Though I am enjoying your wisdom, when you choose to share it, I would like to hear from others as well on the subject of banning Peanut butter from schools. *Please notice yet ANOTHER attempt on my part to get this thing BACK where it was meant to go~

~~yet you accuse me of lusting for your childs pain~

Harsh words indeed. And I still mean them. By the tone of your reply to my opinion on the matter, I took it as you WANTED to hear how others have suffered. And I'm afraid the only way I could make you see I MIGHT have some valid views on the subject was to explain I am also in the same boat with my own children.

YOUR WORDS ~~I cannot believe your attitude, frankly. You have not indicated your child could DIE from her allergies, that is a huge distinction. we are not talking about sneezing, a rash, or something some benadryl could fix; no, this is a child stopping breathing, coma, death. But to you, oh we cannot infringe on your rights to do what you want!~~

THAT to me means you'd like to hear for yourself that my child has suffered and will continue to do so. To me it seems you will only see my views as valid if I have walked in your shoes. You don’t have to agree with my opinion, but I ask respect.

It seems to me you took this thread as more of a personal attack than a discussion about the banning of peanut products. You immediately attacked my ideas that were different from yours. I answered as strongly and forcefully as you did to the original question. For some reason you took personal offense at what I had to say, though I was not speaking of your child directly, nor was I speaking of kids in her age range. *DUH!~

I understand your pain and I understand your emotions and your DH's emotions as well, but I ask that you take a step back for a moment.... it's hard to see the forest through the trees. By your emotional outpour directed (unfortunately) towards me you have simply proven in my eyes you are too close to see the whole picture *And that you are a moron and easy pickings~. I learned many years ago to step back and try and see it from another angle *You should try that sometime~. After some soul searching I was able to look at things in a different light (after my initial reaction to things of course, I AM human) I have found I have a better understanding of things if I just stop to think.... to listen... to learn and absorb.

best wishes

Sheila Wrote:It's like this Optycal.... If a peanut allergic child passes someone in the hall that has eaten PB and breathes on them and that PB allergic child inhales a partical that is smaller than the eye can see *oh fucking duh! You think I don’t know what a particle is? No you must have meant that particle the size of my house right? that child has 5 to 10 minutes to administer an epinephrine shot and get to the hospital before serious side effects (EVEN DEATH) occur.

If a child has a right to go to school then the child has a right to be protected at school. *Not if it involves taking away the rights of all the other kids in the school~

If getting peanut butter out of schools will help protect them then I will go to bat. *And I’ll strike you out.~

If someone was allergic to mayonaise then my daughter would learn to love musturd.... I can deal with whinning a bit during school hours but I could not deal with the fact that I could have caused a child to be hurt or possibly die because I refuse to be the boss of my child and say "no, you cannot take mayo to school because it can hurt some children there" *And how about when you sent your child to the Mother’s Day Out and she almost croaked because of peanut butter… you didn’t do your job then and now you can’t live with yourself failing as a mother huh?~.
If you can live with possibly killing a child because your child wants pbj and you don't want to face telling them no, then that's your choice and you have the right to choose pbj or whatever the food allergy is over the safety of other children. It’s not my job to watch out and make sure YOUR kid doesn’t eat my kids’ peanut butter sandwich.~

You say that you like to debate....
I say we debate the fact that your children have more rights than my children!  *if you insist~
What makes your child so much more special that she can eat pbj and mine can't? Well your DNA fucked her chances of eating PB. How is that my fault? I wasn’t there while you and your hubby screwed. I wasn’t in your womb fucking with the DNA and making her allergic. I wasn’t the one who fed her PB before she was ready for it and caused her to be allergic. So it’s a matter of DNA that makes my kids more special than yours, since YOU wanted to put it that way! LOL~
But one final question.....

If your child had eaten pbj one morning before school and you knew that there was allergic children in their school and she passed her schoolmate in the hall and that child contacted inhaled traces of PB and died a few minutes later what would you say to that child's parents?   *Perhaps you should have taken your kid out of public school and did home schooling instead.~
Sorry but my child likes pbj and I'm not woman enough to make them eat something else until they get home from school so you can just deal with the fact that your child is dead because my child will eat his/her pbj and it's my rights? * Awww is that supposed to hurt? LOL it DID tingle a  little… but mostly just made me laugh~
I hope no one is ever faced with having to know that they contributed or caused the death of an innocent child....  *Then keep your allergic kids out of public school or take some of the precautions I listed above.

If you think that it's your right to have your child eat pbj at school even if it might kill another then maybe you should support legalizing drinking and driving or maybe even allow children to carry pocket knives.....  *LOL jesus, you are incredibly funny. Keep it up… I need a good laugh!~
A PBJ sandwich is like a LOADED GUN to some children *Then they should take precautions that don’t interfere with other kids’ childhoods.... I understand that it might be an INCONVIENIANCE to not have your child eat PB before or during school but come on.... Can't you find something better to debate?  *What gives you the right to tell me my kids can’t have peanut butter before school? Why is your kid’s allergy MY responsibility?~ Or are the lives of the innocence debatable to you? My child's life is not debatable! Sorry! *No you’re not =)

__________________
Sheila, mom to Ashlynn 3, Madison 1


Lovinghim Wrote:
I may be a fool for posting anything at this point, but I want to say thanks for the info Sheila--I did not realize how serious a peanut allergy could be. I am interested in an answer to the question posted near the beginning--are peanut allergies more common than they used to be? Why is that (or why does it seem that way)?

As for the debate--as a moderator, I just want to remind everyone that discussion is good, flaming (making inflammatory statements to a member or group) is not. Sometimes it is good to agree to disagree.
Take care!
LovingHim
*Finally a moderator steps in and tells Sheila to knock it off. About damn time! It had been aprox. 4 HOURS of this going on now.
Gayle  Long wrote:
Ladies, I totally agree that we can just agree to disagree on subjects that may be posted on the boards. It makes great discussions to share points of view, but as lovingHim said, flaming is not allowed. Thanks for your co-operation
Gayle Long
*And here all of a sudden we have ANOTHER moderator…. Where the hell were they when Sheila started in on me in the first place?

Sheila Wrote:On behalf of my husband and myself, I apologize for flaming *You’re only sorry you got caught.~. This is a very hot button for us, and my daughter's face was all I could see in my mind as I considered that there are people out there who may be angry at being askedf not to bring pb to schools. Perhaps it is my feeling of helplessness to totally protect my child *And the fact she almost died because you were selfish and sent her to Mother’s Day Out?~ ... I am sure as Mother's we have all felt that way at some time in some regard *Sure, but I’ve never endangered my child’s life because I was selfish.~. Anyhow, sorry for the flaming remarks! * No you’re not. You wouldn’t have apologized unless the mods stepped in. I know there are several pre schools in our area that have banned pb, but I do not know about the K-high schools yet. I have been waiting til closer to the time of her going to call and upset myself if not.

Optycal Wrote:
ah good. I finally went to sleep at 4 am and just now got back up. =) I needed some rest after that heated discussion. Since Sheila, you so gracefully apologized for the bashing and the flaming you posted directed towards me, I wont bother to respond to those parts of your reply. And my apology WAY up there before the moderators stepped in still applies (SP), nothing I said was meant as a flame, if it was taken that way I am sorry (I'd like a copy and paste of the offending words though so I can understand what you're upset about and apologize accordingly.)  *Nobody sent me ANYTHING about this. I can only assume there were none~

~~EDIT~~ Please keep in mind my child IS one of the kids at risk for a very serious and painful food reaction, so please dont keep saying "What if it was your child" (Directed at me of course) because it IS MY CHILD.... ~~~

As for the rule, if it DID pass in the school, I'd most likely change schools. I have other issues with schools and government stepping in that contributes to that, but the rule is a final straw in my eyes. I think it's stupid to bring a child with that severe an allergy to a school that DOESN’T have the rule. FIND A SCHOOL with THE RULE. That’s my opinion. Simply put, do what I do and go out of your way to bring your kid to a school you like better, a school you think is more fit. I'd fight the rule, but if it did pass, my kids would be out the door.

I think it's great you're willing to stand up for your child's rights, but I'm also willing to stand up for my kids' rights. I'm not alone in my opinion either, unfortunately those that agree with me don't post on these boards (or have chosen not to post on this particular subject, UNDERSTANDABLE! LOL), it's too bad because they really have some great thoughts.

On to the "Breathing on another child" issue. I thinks it's insane to expect folks not to feed their kids peanut butter and peanut products in the mornings. So because someone's child at our school MIGHT be allergic to peanut products I have to now read all the packages before I let my kids eat? It's now on MY Shoulders to make sure my kids don’t consume peanut products just because they could breathe the wrong direction in school and make someone sick? I just can't see how that’s fair to change the eating habits of all the other kids. I'm sorry I don’t agree on this, and I'm trying very hard to understand.

At first it was just "Don't bring it to school" now it's on to "Don’t feed it to them until they get back from school". And we're not talking of just peanut butter anymore, now it's all nut products! I did a quick survey of the foods in my kitchen right now, half of them contain some sort of peanut product (OIL, nuts, traces etc) my kids would be eating rice cakes for breakfast every morning to avoid a possible inhalation at school =/ that’s just not sitting well with me.

It's becoming more and more unfair as we speak. YES it's your Child’s life in the balance, but I gave some very fine suggestions how to tame the problem.... and if it's an issue of a smudge on a table or chair, teach your child (remember I'm speaking about school agers) to wipe the chair with a sanitary wipe or have a teacher do it for her (to avoid accidental smudging!) Even that is acceptable, and she doesn’t have to sit elsewhere. Again, have the food patrol (like my school has) to watch over the kids who can't have certain foods.

Then we have the teasing issue involved. I would be afraid that some kids would be so angry about their favorite foods taken away, they'd find out WHOM it was because of and they'd tease and bully the poor kid. I don’t want that for any child, but we all know how kids are, no matter how well we teach them.... it will happen =/

~~QUOTE: "The parents of non-sensitive children may selfishly (or for financial reasons) argue that "Why should my child be deprived of peanut when the problem is that of another child?" Perhaps the answer lies in the counter-argument that if their child had the life threatening reaction would they not be the first to demand that all peanuts be removed form the child's school" END QUOTE~~

Honestly though if my child was going to die because she SMELLED the offending food, I wouldn’t bring her to a public school, her right to a public school education just doesn’t outweigh the health dangers involved for her! Luckily my child gets sick only when consuming the offending foods. I stated before I would NOT ask the school to ban peanut products. It's just not right. (And I don’t happen to agree it makes us parents selfish, it makes us realistic.)

Relaxandhavefun has touched on a point I was trying to make earlier *I didn’t include that post but I explained it below... now we're talking about out in public with the peanut vendor at a baseball game, or the smell of roasting peanuts as you're walking down the street. It's VERY scary to think what would happen and how DO they leave the house? What is the solution then? Those kids with allergies are going to grow up someday and have to deal in the real world.... I don’t think banning peanut products in a school is going to help them learn to cope with it in real life.

I have a thought for the baseball game though, a peanut free zone. A section at various points in the stands that peanuts are forbidden in. It's my best thought for that.... as for the smell floating in the air... I really have no idea . =( For once I am fresh out of thoughts on that. I have seen folks wearing masks (like dust masks) frequently around the bakery in my hometown; it's a simple enough solution if it works for them.

It's great to see so many thoughts and questions on the subject! I think we'll all walk away from this discussion with some very good information (Thanks to Sheila’s links!) and some new thoughts on the subject.


I could POSSIBLY be talked into agreeing to "No peanut butter" at school *Notice how I’m willing to bend in one direction or another for the sake of argument. I don’t see anyone else trying to bend their views a little, but then it gets to the other products made with nut products and the "Don’t eat it before school" thing too. I just can't see every child in the school having their breakfast policed just in case it may have been made from nuts. And what about the kids who don’t bathe before school (I know a yucky subject) but there are kids who don’t bathe before school, had peanut butter the night before and still have it on their hands or clothes or something. I mean really where do we draw the line? That’s my main question with the issue... where is the line and who is the one to decide it?

Separate table with no peanut products allowed, diligent washing of table and chairs by staff, lunch checks to make sure no dangerous products go near the sick child... the list could go on if I felt like thinking anymore about it.

I'm curious now what about the child I mentioned above? What do we do in that case, he had peanut butter for dinner the night before but he didn’t wash his hands/face/clothes and somehow ended up bringing trace amounts of the offending food to school.... how do you police that? What are all your reactions to that scenario? What can we do in that case?

And for a moment, try and think.... what other options can you think of besides banning offending foods.... to help the kids who are allergic? This could be a great brainstorming opportunity! I've mentioned quite a few workable option already, anyone else have any ideas?

I think I'm just about done with this subject, I believe I have made my stance on it pretty well known. I will continue to check back though, I'm curious what other ideas can be had from the discussion!

Good day

DeeDee Wrote: This was just my experience, and I am in no way saying my situation was anywhere in the league of these poor folks dealing with these horrible, life threatening food allergies.
As a child, I had Legg Perthis disease, a congenital disorder that manifests itself in that the entire pelvic structure begins to soften and crumble. I was lucky. It was caught in time and I wore leg braces that eventually cured the disorder. Now, I am 36 and back in my elementary school days, handicapped facilities were not prevalent as they are now. Our cafeteria was at the top of a flight of stairs that I could not climb. The answer to this was that I ate in my classroom. I got to choose a buddy each day who would keep me company. I loved this arrangement! I actually had children fight over who would get to keep me company at lunch time. What had started out as a situation that could have made me feel isolated and 'odd' turned out to be the best school year of my life. I have my mother, my teacher, and some great kids to thank for this wonderful experience. It shows what can happen if everybody involved is willing to put their heads together to find a solution. Again, I TOTALLY understand that my experience is in no way on the level of children with severe food allergies, however, I wanted to perhaps give a perspective of someone who used to be 'different', but with a lot of help and love came out alright, feeling valued and special. My heart goes out to you who have, yourselves, or your children have this horrible problem. I think we all agree that any child that is suffering is worthy of our help, compassion, and love. If there is one common thread among the varied women of Main Street Mom, it's that unequivocally we would all fight to the death to protect children. That's why our name is Mom.
With Love- DeeDee


*DeeDee pipes in and tried her hand at making people see the possibilities out there. She tells a personal story and hopes that it’ll sink in that there are other ways to handle situations. Sheila dismisses her post and totally ignores the message in it. I don’t have that particular post unfortunately. Just tust me on this one, she really pissed DeeDee off!
DeeDee Wrote: Carolyn's 'smiley' was certainly appropriate (and funny)! "Beating a dead horse" exactly, describes what has happened in this thread. It is a shame when someone opens up and tries to reach a hand out to someone in need, and have it dismissed and slapped away *See, I told ya…. Sheila just pretends life is all peachy for everyone else and just horrible for HER child. Nobody else’s problems matter. My experience WAS NOT all positive. I had three years as a 'cripple' (what I was commonly called) from ages 6 to 9. One year was wonderful, two were not so hot. I have chosen to put a positive face on it because to feel negativity is to flood the body with poison. That is why I am posting one final time to this thread, to purge myself of this feeling of anger.
Please remember: what goes around, comes around. If you wish people to be compassionate to you, you had better show GENUINE compassion to them. *That means YOU Sheila!
DeeDee
I wont bother posting the rest, just know that even though Sheila said she was done with the thread, she wasn’t able to keep her word and stay away. She continues TO THIS DAY to post on it. Contradictory much?

Add-on 10-11-02: The most funny thing about Sheila and her sad little husband is the fact they sent me an email. First saying how funny my site is, and all that. Then another offering friendship and saying I need to find GOD (oh give me a fucking break!) and then in the very next line threatening my site! These folks never stop.... I am beside myself with fear (taste the sarcasm?) He is trying to scare me with all his techie talk, saying how big and powerful he is.... *rolls eyes* bring it on  daddykins. Oh and I went to this great place to eat, they cook everything in peanut oil... it was YUMMY!
 


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